Post by Vester Lombard on Mar 17, 2016 5:36:03 GMT
WOW. I can't sleep I'm so excited about how close that game was. Let's discuss our final thoughts about the game. Thanks again!!
1. What did you think of your feat?
2. What did you think of the different team strategies and how they played out?
3. What did you think of rolling for Rest?
4. What did you think of the inclusion of Dodge?
5. Any final comments, changes?
MY THOUGHTS: I was going to use Protego in combination with Kamikaze, but there was never an opportune moment. It doesn't feel like a very useful feat. Its advantage is that you can spend a "rest" action instead of your opponents' intended target, but that is a very specific scenario. Not sure how common that is.
I liked that we both tried extremely different strategies and the game still balanced out. No skill seems overpowered.
I like rolling for Rest. It encourages people to consider playing with their penalties, rather than resting being the obvious option.
I like Dodge. It makes you think twice about beating the player who would be the obvious target.
I may make a few Feat tweaks, but I think everything else is good to go.
1. Cheer didn't amount to much this game, but I felt it was a great option to have. It encouraged me to hold back and see if I could assist teammates with their near miss actions (inner Hufflepuff is strong). I'd play with it again.
2. I loved how the two different strategies had different end goals in mind. Cumberbatches went heavy Beating early game to weaken their opponents' rolls, working together to set up a high swing in late game with the snitch (and I'm sure if the scores were closer, more use of Sharlot's slam dunk). Cuddlepuffs went for pure chasing and gave up on the snitch entirely, with moderate beating. It really came down to reading each others' strategies in that moment.
3. Rest now feels like its not a wasted action, that there's a level of engagement that comes with rolling well. I'm glad there's at least the 1 IP removed on a low roll, otherwise I could find the mechanic to be too frustrating. Agreed, it does encourage more of a choice between using an action to rest and just rolling with the punches (sorry).
4. I wasn't a fan of Dodge in its feat form with no roll. However, available to all and with a chance of failure, I think its a great tool to have. It can be used proactively (I need to keep my IP low for the next two rounds/waste their beats) or as a means to secure success, like when I had landed that 30 pt. shot. I was pretty nervous I would fail the dodge roll and lose the chase roll... Good tension.
5. Please add to the rules that your Search rolls count towards the team's Seek DC, not just your own. The strategy was a surprise to me and I would love to create future ones that focus on other players assisting the Seeker with their search. Could be worth the time invested.
Post by Quinn Starling on Mar 17, 2016 14:50:18 GMT
1. I liked the linebacker option. I definitely played it safe/light on beating, but that was also a part of our team's strategy: heavy chasing, light in pretty much every other area. The certain tackles did add up, though. And it was nice to know that you guys wouldn't rest with just 1 IP but it could still impact your rolls. I think, as a player in general, I like to go for the better odds. I don't like to play with too many risks. Sometimes the simple moves do add up, if they're not predicted and counteracted by the other team.
2. Cumberbatches did what I WANTED to do game 3-heavy on beating and especially early on. I had some trouble convincing my team of that, and getting everyone on board with feats & stuff to organize that. I think that's my favorite way to play , personally, since I love the beater position & love knowing I can affect the rolls of the other team. I think I have beating strategy down the best, of any position.
I did have fun with our crazy chasing, though. We agreed immediately that seeking was not even a consideration. I think Walltur just searched once to not give ourselves away immediately. Having the +3/+3 was a fun balance of skills, that allowed me to play either position while hoping I wouldn't get beaten/lose IP while chasing (since it wouldn't affect current beat rolls) And I liked our chasing split between the hoops. I pushed for that, knowing we could be locked down and miserable if we all did one hoop lol. We tried to keep them somewhat random/mixed, so you guys wouldn't know exactly where we were going next (other than knowing we'd split in general).
3. I still kinda wish Rest was non-roll but I get why it is. And I think if it's going to stay rolled, it HAS to have the guaranteed +1 heal on a failed roll. Wasting an action on rest hurts enough, let alone wasting an action AND not being able to heal at all.
4. I love Dodge as an action open to everyone. It made us consider the other team's strategy as well as our own. You have to assume if/who they're going to beat, and I like that you can use it after other actions. If it had to be used first like Rest, I wouldn't like it as much. Like when Walltur made the 30-pt shot, then dodged to protect that roll.
5. I really like the new DC numbers. I think that, with the available skill distributions and IP limits, it's all a good balance with numbers. And I agree with Walltur- I almost asked about stacking searches last game but didn't. It would have been nice to know beforehand, to consider as a strategy. Definitely include that in the rules.
*This is picky- but in the rules it still says that chase moves may increase DC. But it won't, with the new Keeper setup. I mentioned this before Game 4 as well. The DC isn't affected, they're just blocked/deflected.
Post by Vester Lombard on Mar 17, 2016 15:00:27 GMT
My original plan was to NEVER use Sharlot's slam dunk, with the hopes that you guys would waste a ton of actions locking down the 10 point hoop. But after Sprye's injuries and multiple failed attempts I figured he would finally give up on lock downs, so that's when I wanted to spend the entire 3rd period shooting 10 pointers. Slam Dunk is a hard Feat to use because there's a clear counter-strategy to it.
I actually really like Quinn's Linebacker ability. It's so annoying to be stuck with 1 IP! That was our strategy last game and it sucks to be on the other end of it haha! It only made me fail one action, but I think it has a larger mental impact and it deterred me from trying many hard actions.
1. What did you think of your feat? I'm not sure from the other side's perspective how much my feat mattered, but as Seeker I thought it was a safe play to limit my potential damage to only -2, with a +4 bonus I knew I could never be in real danger and with them taking a Chase heavy strategy I felt confident I would slip by them until the end, so early searches would be my best strategy, with an option to Beat if necessary. In that way, I had a clear path ahead of me and it seemed to work out well.
2. What did you think of the different team strategies and how they played out? I think it was good for testing purposes but a somewhat unlikely set up for an actual game. I enjoyed it, I had fun seeking which was a surprise because the position seemed boring prior to this round's testing, I've enjoyed Beating the most so far. It was interesting to see the different strategies in play, I think the game is fairly robust and the feats really affect how we play generally, overall I was really happy with both teams choices - kept everyone on their toes.
3. What did you think of rolling for Rest? I'm conflicted on how I feel about rolling for rest, but I think overall it's likely a better option as it provides uncertainty from the opposing teams perspective about how well they'll heal and how likely they are to take that gamble.
4. What did you think of the inclusion of Dodge? I like the Dodge option but am very unhappy with how it's implemented. From a purely logical perspective, dodging any action should come first, you're anticipating an attack. I don't think that dodge should be able to be used to protect rolls as was the case for Walltur. At that point you've been successful and are buying insurance, whereas I believe Dodge should be used strategically in anticipation of beating and posted first just as Rest is. I think it would make it more fun for me, as it is it seems now like an easy out of a bad outcome - obviously, dependent on rolls, but at easy dc - hardly a risk. I don't think raising the DC is appropriate, at most Medium if it's not a play first action, but making it first would be better to me.
Post by Vester Lombard on Mar 17, 2016 17:15:48 GMT
I hear ya, and I'm giving Dodge a lot of thought. I actually didn't even think of using Dodge as insurance for a successful roll until midway through the game. Despite it not making sense thematically (which does bother me), I actually kind of like how it works as a game mechanic.
By dodging you are sacrificing an action to secure an already successful action, when you could be potentially succeeding another action. Depending on the circumstances, that sacrificed action may not even be worthwhile, as the opponents are likely to beat one of the other 3 players. So, I think it still emphasizes the strategy of only using it when you are anticipating an attack.
Also, I don't think it is too powerful because it can still be trumped. In the case of "insuring" a 30 point shot, it can still be thwarted with a block. An "insured" lock down can still be thwarted by shooting elsewhere. For seek the other team could still get a higher seek roll. And beating isn't affected by beats. Also, the insurance still requires a roll and is not guaranteed.
Post by Quinn Starling on Mar 17, 2016 17:36:26 GMT
I agree with Vester.
I think Dodge is okay to use after an action, because at that point you could waste 1-2 actions trying to dodge and still fail. Using any non-aggressive actions (so, rest/dodge) feels a little painful each time. And maybe you only have 1 shot left for dodge if the roll you're protecting is your second one. I think it adds to the strategy & planning of actions, this way. I like that it's somewhat of an insurance. You're still gambling whether you'll get hit at all.
And I think if it was at Medium DC, no one would use it. Easy DC Dodge seems like a viable option, but then you have to reconsider how many attempts will you allow yourself if you fail once, and how important your more productive actions are for that round. I personally wouldn't try for it at medium DC.
I felt it was an appropriate use from a mechanical standpoint. I'm a bit hesitant to use Dodge preemptively, more so because at that point, you are making three assumptions.
1. That you will be targeted for beats. 2. That you will succeed at your dodge. 3. You will be successful at your remaining actions.
At least with rest you have some gain to rely on even taking dodge really early has too many assumptions for me to be willing to use it.
As far as timing of actions go, Beats always come before other actions besides rest. If your keeper misses his blocks and your beater follows up with hitting the opposing Chaser to help protect the open goals, how does that make more sense than using dodge to try and protect your gains?
The game feels like it's in a good place now; mirroring what other testers mentioned above. A thought that hit me during last game though is the way we adjusted our strategy based on the skill points and feats we saw the other team take. I can see this becoming a meta-strategy in future games as each team waits to see the layout of the others' skills and feats and adjusts accordingly.
So my question is: Would the game be made better or worse if we went to a HGRPG-style secrecy of skill points and feats? So you wouldn't know that Charlie's got a +3 to Beating until he rolls for it in the first period.
Post by Vester Lombard on Mar 18, 2016 18:54:08 GMT
I actually like that everyone is aware of each others' skills and feats. I think without that knowledge, your actions become very random and not based on any strategic thinking. I was thinking you wouldn't be able to reassign skills mid-game, but that does give me an idea where players could acquire magical items that, when equipped, give you a different skill bonus.
Probably the best way to handle this would be for everyone to select their feats and items in a private thread and then reveal them simultaneously before the start of the game.
Walltur: Mmk, I can see that now
Mar 17, 2016 15:19:37 GMT
Vester Lombard: Beating a seeker in the 4th is pretty huge. Each IP is essentially erasing the effect of one of their successful searches.
Mar 17, 2016 16:28:34 GMT
Quinn Starling: Yeah, I would have hit Ginger more if I thought she'd rest up or if you'd heal her. But I figured that you guys would maybe leave her at 2 since that was her max, especially since we decided to stay inujurred, too Lol
Mar 17, 2016 16:36:34 GMT
Quinn Starling: We planned back between periods 2-3 to consider staying injured if we got to -3 again, to waste any coming beatings. If you aim for low DCs, have enough skill to make up for the IP, AND get lucky, it's sometimes worth it to keep the damage & keep rolling
Mar 17, 2016 17:34:53 GMT
Vester Lombard: I think in the 2nd period you definitely have to rest. 3rd period, maybe, pending your team strategy. 4th period, probably not.
Mar 17, 2016 21:14:43 GMT
Sprye Tatel: In the interest of not adding a new post each day to the Space Debate threads, would we be interested in sharing ideas via Google Docs? tinyurl.com/zlk8sb3
Mar 21, 2016 5:01:20 GMT
Quinn Starling: I'm in favor of death penalty for illegal pretty floral bonnets. I think that needs to be an argument that happens Lol
Mar 21, 2016 13:54:41 GMT
Walltur: Pro, but under the argument that all viewers of the bonnet be executed, rather than the wearer. Deadly illegal bonnets
Mar 22, 2016 4:16:02 GMT
Quinn Starling: Depends on how pretty. We'd need a numerical rating scale, to start. Any bonnet rated 6 or over (by 2/3 vote of galactic council) is determined "pretty" and a single flower may be defined as "floral." Any fixture worn upon the head may serve as "bonnet."
Mar 22, 2016 15:54:13 GMT
Quinn Starling: (that's on a scale of 1-10) And I'd be against death penalty for illegal ones (unregistered, obtained illegally, etc.) Jail sentencing and community work are appropriate, but not death penalty. Too extreme.
Mar 22, 2016 15:56:18 GMT
Vester Lombard: While I am against the death penalty for pretty floral bonnets, I do think that all people who have encountered the bonnet should have their brains slightly melted. I think this would both save lives and prevent any risk of spreading that fashion
Mar 22, 2016 16:25:34 GMT
Sprye Tatel: Again with the slightly-melting brains proposal? Seems very convenient for the Muppet-race; who can re-grow/stuff brain cells! Whose pocket are you in? Who is pulling your strings!?
Mar 22, 2016 17:16:41 GMT
Sprye Tatel: I say that the punishment should fit the crime: The penalty for Pretty Floral Bonnet's (PFB's) should be death by PFB!
Mar 22, 2016 17:19:46 GMT
Quinn Starling: I have found my people. This is where I belong <3
Mar 22, 2016 23:08:03 GMT
Walltur: Any games coming down the pipe? Online practice game of Cornucopia?
Apr 6, 2016 15:19:22 GMT
Vester Lombard: If you guys want we could try doing some online Galactic Debate. It would lose a bit of the spontaneous improv element when played on the forum, but maybe it could at least help figure out which cards are fun or boring.
Apr 11, 2016 16:36:36 GMT
Quinn Starling: We could schedule a "live" session and either skype or have the speaker type up their response within a certain time frame. So, speaker says they're free at 9pm. At 8:55 they're given their topic, then they have from 9:00-9:05 to type up their platform...?
Apr 11, 2016 17:53:36 GMT